#22 – Sustainable Agency CEO, a Published Author, and a True Agent of Change

with Tim Frick of Mightybytes

22 - Tim Frick

 

Tim Frick is the CEO of Mightybytes, a certified B Corp digital agency based in Chicago. Mightybytes connects conscious companies and nonprofits to the digital solutions they need to create greater impact through online success. In addition to running his 22-year-old agency, he is an avid writer and a leader in the B Corporation community with a passion for sustainability.

Through blog posts, his own books, and conversations like ours, Tim shares his successes and challenges in building an enduring company in the ever-changing digital industry all while maintaining focus on their mission of sustainability and making an impact in the community.

In this episode, he provides insight into how he has been able to balance his roles as a writer and a CEO, the process of developing Mightybytes’ mission-driven identity, and the potential to achieve sustainability goals within the existing framework of your company.

mightybytes team

Tim Facilitating a design sprint with the Alliance for the Great Lakes.

A few takeaways from our conversation:

  • How to manage a schedule with writing, being the CEO of a substantial business, while supporting the growth of the sustainable business community.
  • How Tim’s desire for greater impact led him from working as a freelancer to growing Mightybytes to where it is today.
  • How impact-motivated companies can use the B Corp certification process and B Impact Assessment as a roadmap for their company’s development and vision.
  • The benefits of approaching sustainability and company problem-solving by engaging in whole-systems thinking.

Show Transcription:

00:07 (Cory) Hey y’all, it’s Cory here with the Grow Ensemble podcast. And on today’s episode I speak with Tim Frick, CEO of Mightybytes, a digital agency based in Chicago. Tim is a leader within this B Corporation community most certainly. He’s a regular contributor on the B Corporation B the Change blog, which is where I first came across him and some of his inspiring thoughts around better business. Tim has been running his agency Mightybytes for 20 plus years now. And as a product to that experience, he’s able to share some super valuable insights during our conversation. And those included, first what’s contributed to that sustainability in business, both the successes and challenges he’s experienced over the years- we dive into that. All the while trying to expand his own personal impact and the impact of Mightybytes itself within the community.

And we as well dissect a bit of Tim’s day-to-day schedule as he balances both life as a writer and a CEO. He contributes not just to the B the Change blog but writes for Mightybytes site itself as well as many other outlets where he discusses his thoughts and experiences in this better business movement. We also make mention of an interesting subject of conversation for agencies and service based business folks. How to balance both fulfilling your own primary mission as a company while as well supporting the missions of the clients that you serve.

02:15 (Tim) My name is Tim Frick and I’m the CEO and founder of a digital agency in Chicago called Mightybytes. We are a certified B Corp and we use business as a force for good in the world. I’m also the author of four books, the most recent of which is called Designing for Sustainability. And it’s about helping designers and build green or digital products and services. And that’s a good little checklist right there.

02:38 (Cory) Excellent. And so you mentioned that right from the get-go the few books that you’ve written, I noticed and this is ultimately how I came across you and Mightybytes, is you’re a contributor at the B Corporation’s blog, B the Change, not to mention a number of other different publications. Reading through the bio you have a list of things that you’ve started, you’re a part of that you’re continuing to support and get off the ground. So I’m kind of curious just to start, how have you fit all this in your career?

03:08 (Tim) I think I’m a writer first and foremost. I think most of my decisions are framed around that. I mean, I’m also the CEO of a business, and so I have a lot of responsibilities there. But as a writer it’s important for me to carve out time in my schedule to make room for that process. That gives me a lot of personal satisfaction as well as running a business, which is a very social affair. Writing is not, and so it gives me a bit of a schizophrenic lifestyle, but it also allows me to focus on multiple things. And so through the venue of the business, I’m able to work with our team and launch a lot of, or help our team launch digital products and services that we do for our clients. On the side in my quiet time, so I say, I get strategy done. I do work on books and podcasts such as this one and interviews and writing blog posts and writing guest posts for other things. And then between those there’s kind of where one foot is in one in the other. I co-host, the local B Corp meetup group in Chicago. If a couple of other B Corp leaders, and we do quarterly events, so that’s a social component, but it also involves a lot of marketing communications and basically just getting the word out there about the power of B Corp’s in what they can do for business in Chicago, and in Illinois in general. And yes, there’s kind of two components to it and some of which straddle straddled each other.

04:29 (Cory) And so I guess briefly, I’m curious that quiet time that you mentioned, what does that exactly look like for you? Is that something consistent every single day or do you batch it together?

04:41 (Tim) It is. I have a do not disturbed time from 8:00 AM until noon in my calendar every day, my team at Mightybytes knows that if there’s an emergency, of course, that they can reach out to me or whatever and I’ll typically have my Slack on if I need it. But it is something that I hold kind of sacred in my calendar. I actually tend to get up a little earlier than that. As a writer I found, especially if it’s a writer in my fifties, I find my brain is freshest, earliest in the morning and so a lot of times I will get up, get myself a cup of coffee and just get to work on whatever that week’s writing project is. And so it could be, like I said, a guest article or I could, if I’m working on a book, it’s a much broader and larger kind of commitment.

05:22 (Tim) So I tend to make a lot more time for that. For the most part my mornings are spent working on strategy and writing and then I go to the office in the afternoons and I typically have meetings and talk with clients and work through some of the challenges of the business. Now if my business were a new business, I probably wouldn’t have that luxury. Mightybytes is going on to 22nd year at this point. So I have the advantage of many of our processes are in place. Our team knows what they’re doing, they can self manage and there they’re really good at what they do and stuff. So it doesn’t require me to be there in person every minute of every day, but I make myself available as much as possible, as often as possible. If anybody has any questions or issues that come up.

06:06 (Cory) I think that’s an important point to mention. I’m curious about that, that schedule as to when you started to integrate that. But it seems as if given 22 years, Mightybytes has had the opportunity to evolve and develop in such a way that you’re not needed there every second of the day. And I guess kind of going on that thread, in existence for 22 years, that’s certainly significant. So I’m interested- as many businesses, it’s a hard to make that claim that you’ve been around that long. What perhaps do you feel has led to, to y’all having the sustainability that you’ve had?

06:41 (Tim) — Insanity. The statistics show that 90-95% of all businesses fail within the first five years. Maybe I should have listened to that voice in my head in years one through five, I don’t know. We are one of the oldest digital agencies in Chicago. When I first started doing this, there were only a small handful of others and they’ve all either been merged into other companies or folded or whatever. I think there is something to be said in the digital world, which changes constantly and is always in flux and it’s a kind of volatile industry. There’s something to be said about a company that’s been able to last through all of that. I mean, it’s really, oftentimes the digital world is about the flavor of the day and we’ve been able to kind of surpass all of that and kind of move beyond all of that and making sure that we’re helping our clients achieve results, solve their problems, measure their impact, and do that in a way that provides measurable results for them.

07:42 I think being able to do that and say that we do that for our clients is what continues to help us. Our clients, nine times out of ten are clients that are super happy to help share the good word of the work that we’ve done with them, which makes it easy, or easier, in a world where, the agency world is a lot of hustling for business development. And so having clients who are happy to provide referrals and testimonials and stuff like that, certainly helps with that process and helps with the longevity.

08:11 (Cory Tim) And I think it’s sometimes difficult for maybe new business owners to rationalize being in the sprint of maybe the first year of the business or the first five years. So I’m interested in your experience, did you feel like over that trajectory, do you feel like there was a particular moment that was some sort of tipping point or understanding that you gathered or it has, it always kind of felt in some way like kind of putting your head down and just moving forward?

08:41 (Tim) Right. I think, as a creative and my business started out with me as a freelancer, like many of agencies. That’s a very common source for agencies to start- as someone who’s good at one particular thing, gets better at that, grows a client base and realizes they have to make a decision at some point. And it’s usually within that first five years they are going to be a hired gun where they can be pulled into a project as an individual as necessary. Or they’re going to be a company where they can be hired for maybe perhaps larger projects or they pull other people into to bring projects to completion. And so for me, I used to have this conversation with a friend of mine who was a die-hard higher gun and didn’t ever want to run a company.

09:24 And I was always more about creating larger impact. I knew that as an individual, we go farther together, then we go alone. And so I always knew as individual that there was only going to be so much I could do. But if I collaborated and connected with other people who were, especially those who might be better at certain things than I am, that we would have a chance to create a greater collective impact. And that’s kind of been a philosophy of mine in business since day one. And then when I discovered B Corp Certification in the B Corp community in general, that’s a big part of that whole idea of interdependence is a big part of what drives that entire global community. And that really resonated with me. And so it was great to find something that standardized many of the things that I was kind of doing by instinct.

10:11 (Cory) So you mentioned this, this concern and desire for making a greater impact, and that that obviously being served by collaborating with other very talented folks. You started as a freelancer, how did this start to take shape? , was it a particular moment and you’re like, okay, I have a vision of maybe of what this could become or did it just kind of happen by circumstance, a little bit kind of piece by piece?

10:34 (Tim) I mean, I think all businesses evolve in their own way on their own timeline and , especially these days we’re at a place where, due to technical disruption and market fluctuations and kind of the instability of many things, businesses are evolving faster and changing faster and pivoting faster than they’ve ever done before. For me, that’s always kind of been a constant.

One of the biggest shifts was the business started in the 90s when it was, the Internet was crazy and couldn’t swing a cat without hitting the bag of internet money. And it was lots of work everywhere and flush times, which is part of why it was exciting to get into this new (then) this new industry that was really kind of, change the way we do business and the way we operate in the way we socialize.

And all of that kind of stuff. Early on in the need of having to take on projects, took on some projects that I didn’t necessarily agree with from a culture and values perspective. And so for instance, one of them was marketing cigarettes as an active lifestyle brand. And I took on the project because at the time I needed the work, but , I finished that project and felt disgusting and really didn’t, didn’t- this is not what I want to be doing. And , I took the work because I needed it and I certainly don’t fault that. But in the same respect, I got to a place where I’m like, in addition to wanting to create greater collective impact, I wanted to do work that matters.

And so after a couple of those projects, I kind of drew a line in the sand for me personally and said, “You know what, I’m just not going to want to focus my efforts on working for organizations whose values I share.” And so I’ve always been focused on mission-driven work and, and so I wanted to make sure that I was continuing to support that. And so I started by working with small nonprofits who could use my help and that kind of grew into larger nonprofits that grew.

And then, the kind of whole conscious company movement started in that grew to corporations and businesses that were looking to create positive change and they would turn to us for help with their digital marketing and building websites and that kind of stuff.

12:43  (Cory) And what was that like? Was that it’s something of a leap to really draw that line in the sand is as you mentioned to get very clear on your values and who you wanted to work with and what kind of work you wanted to do?

12:53 (Tim) I think it was, I wouldn’t say it was a leap, it was always there, but as a new business owner in the early or the mid-nineties, mid to late nineties when someone’s dangling of six figure check at you, you’re like, “Sure, I’ll do that. No problem.” So your willingness to do that, especially, it’s a freelance lifestyle is up and down and up and down and so it’s feast or famine. And so when opportunities arise, there’s this kind of knee jerk reaction to say, I should take that because I don’t know when the next one’s going to come. And I think many agency owners, especially freelancers, fall into that trap and then they ended up doing, they either get known for this specialty kind of work, which they may or may not care about doing or they just go into this trap of taking on whatever work comes along and their message gets diluted, what this company stands for isn’t necessarily really clear, they might be all over the place because they’re taking this project and that project.

So for me, like I said, the values were always there. A little bit of, it was not by choice because after 9/11 and the economy kind of had already been in the tank because of the tech .1.0 bubble bursting, why was faced with a place of not having any work and having to take on a couple of these projects and feeling like I, I’m in a situation where I need to do this work, but I also really don’t want to. And so what, when I’m not working on this project that I don’t care about, can I do to make sure that this doesn’t happen again or that I can be lined up for the kind of work that I want to be doing? And so I basically spent much of my free time between projects working on that, trying to figure out who are the organizations that do share my values. Where can I, how can I provide value to them? How can I create work for myself while also helping them meet their goals. , there was a slow kind of transition process to that. But I mean, the business was also was also slowly growing along with that. So I certainly was not one to complain.

14:47 (Cory) I mean this is kind of bridges as well to mentioning that excellent three-part series that you wrote on the B the Change blog at a B corporation blog titled Agencies of Change where you profile your own company, Mightybytes, as well as some other agencies in this space who are doing some excellent work in the arena of sustainability. And you sorta touched on this, this aspect there, but I’m interested to talk a little bit more about it because I’m sure it’s a topic of interest for a lot of folks. And you mentioned this transition of you spent free time, l looking to find out, exactly how you could provide value to the companies and organizations who, aligned with your principles and values yourself. You mentioned in these pieces a couple of times in some respect that there’s some constraints by which you can achieve the sustainability goals that you want by the size of your business. Can you talk about maybe a bit more about that that process of pursuing some higher goals for impact with your business while balancing the necessary growth or running and operating the business itself?

15:57 (Tim) Sure. The company continued despite- after 9/11, there was definitely a about the bottom fell out and for awhile it was just me. And then occasionally it was me and a couple of other freelancers. Interestingly enough, we weren’t really, that impacted by what happened in 2007 and 2008 was the kind of global financial meltdown. My hypothesis for that is that many organizations, by that point, the Internet was well entrenched into many companies and businesses and organizations and outsourcing to a company’s like Mightybytes was actually a bonus for them because it was lower risk for organizations. So we actually continued to kind of grow, albeit slowly throughout that process. And for those, for the reasons I’ve just mentioned, what really kind of solidified it all for me, it was the B Corp certification. We were members of our local chamber of Commerce in a neighborhood called Hendersonville and in Chicago and we’d gone through an environmental certification.

 And this kind of dovetails with this idea of doing purpose driven work and being a member of the Chamber of Commerce was important for us to get to know our community. And even though they might not have been Mightybytes’ target market, we were a business, we ran a business in that neighborhood, so we wanted to make sure that we were positively impacting that neighborhood. So we went through their kind of, environmental certification and I like to call it like the gateway drug to becoming a B Corp because it helped us open up our eyes to the fact that sure I can go out and try to find businesses that share my values. But there’s this whole other component, all of these other components, of the business that also need paying attention to. I think in, as I mentioned earlier in the agency world, it can be really easy to constantly be paying attention to the hustle because you’re always worried about where the next business is going to come from, and oftentimes people don’t take a step back and look at all of the moving pieces from a 30,000 foot perspective.

And I think talking about sustainability, it’s really important everybody do that with all of the systems they’re involved in. , that they’d be able to take a step back and zoom out to 30,000 feet and look at the whole systems and engage in whole-systems thinking, and then zoom back in on a specific portion and be able to pay attention to that portion and then, do some problem solving in that area. And so the B Corp certification, because it has five different components within the impact assessment, was really helpful for us because we’d already gone through the environmental assessment with the local Chamber of Commerce.

That part of the B Impact assessment was easy for us to finish, and we scored really well there. But then we also went to the workers section and the community section and realize that we had a lot of work to do in these other areas. The B Corp certification in effect created, or helped us create this kind of blueprint for building a better business. And so it definitely opened my eyes to a lot of the other things that I needed to pay attention to if I really want to do have a business that I held to a high standards of accountability and transparency in all that kind of stuff.

18:53 (Cory) That’s really interesting. Certainly in the agency space there is that concern with the hustle and business development without a doubt. So I guess you do touch on this a bit there and what you just mentioned, but perhaps if you were to, speak to yourself perhaps in one of those instances of feeling that the anxiety that comes with that hustle or another agency owner who’s interested in making an impact with their business, what kind of case would you make to them as to the importance of taking a look like you just said, that 30,000 foot view, taking a look at the B impact assessment. If you’re, you’re speaking to them and they’re worried about growth. No, I just need more business first and foremost. What kind of case would you make to them as to why they might need to look there first?

19:41 (Tim) A couple things come to mind there. If you’re constantly wallowing in the day to day, putting out fires in the day to day operations and runnings of your business and not taking that step back, you’re going to find that time passes and you haven’t evolved. You haven’t maybe met a lot of your goals because you’re constantly putting out that thing that’s in your face right now. And so just taking a step back and , as they say, working on the business as opposed to in the business, gives you a bit of perceptive objectivity so that you can kind of look at all of the parts of the business that are important and define how you’re going to steer the ship for the next six months or a year or five years without having to worry about whatever pain point needs to be addressed that morning. And so I think it’s really easy to fall in that trap in the service industry because there’s always a pain point that needs to be addressed.

There’s always something that’s going on. There’s always some, something that you need to pay attention to. And if you don’t carve out that time to make sure you’re focusing on the bigger picture issues, the company just doesn’t evolve. And we had that happen. I mean, for a while, we were kind of stagnating and the mid to late two thousands, the company, like I said, it was kind of slowly growing, but we were finding ourselves taking on a lot of the same kind of work. We weren’t really evolving, we weren’t doing a lot of new different things. And so we really wanted to push ourselves to figure out like, how do we change and evolve and become a better company. And so the B impact assessment is, is great because it allows you to look at all of these pieces, moving pieces of your business from an objective perspective.

And I think the challenge of it is that as an agency, many companies have really strong purpose, mission, vision, value statements like product companies. But service companies typically are in service of their client and its mission. So that kind of strong sense of purpose can get lost in translation. And so, when you find the B Corp Assessment it also, it can be really tempting to kind of run in and do all the things. And it’s really meant to be a benchmarking tool. You have to do what your resources allow. And so, going in and identifying all these opportunities to evolve and change your business, but then also going in and saying, and I can do this one and I can do this one but I can’t do those four, at least not this time. , and, and so it gives you this roadmap which I, which I really appreciated.

22:00 (Cory) And , you bring up a really interesting point with the issue of being in services is that , you are looking to support your client’s mission. And I think that can sometimes be a concern of agencies like, “Oh well , how can we utilize the skills that we do have to make a more, I guess immediate impact or an impact that’s much closer to I guess their, proper business themselves versus that translated through their clients?” And I feel like you’re pieces for the B the Change blog agencies of chains, talks a lot about this, highlights other agencies who have done this themselves.

I’m kind of curious while you have spoken and written on this extensively to hear a little bit more, I guess as to how you thought and rationalized through that with Mightybytes. , there’s a list of things that from Ecograder to the first online B Corp store, the things that y’all have, set up, established. How have you rationalize this balance between making the proper impact yourselves while as well, continuing to support the missions of your clients.

23:04 (Tim) Right, right. Yeah. No, I mean that’s a, that’s probably the big million dollar question, right? I mean we learned through the B Impact Assessment what we could do with it and got super excited and thought of all of these things. Part of it was like, for instance, just as one example, your asked a lot of questions about your supply chain as an agency. Your supply chain is pretty much pixels and people, as a digital agency that is, and so, you have to really rethink what that means. Like if you’re a product company and you work with a bunch of vendors who supply you all the parts of your product and then you have a manufacturer puts it all together, you’ll get a much broader, larger set of moving parts to work with. Whereas with an agency, it’s mostly people doing work on behalf of their clients. And so you have to think a little bit differently about that.

And right around that same time, we were learning that the Internet had the larger environmental impact than the airline industry. And so, that was the thing that we built for a living. And so because of that, it was really eye opening to say, okay, well, that’s something that all websites require electricity to run and the majority of our electricity in the United States, at least, it doesn’t come from renewable sources. So what can we do, at least for one step to find green hosting? And so we started kind of experimenting with a bunch of different green hosting providers. Turns out that wasn’t easy and that ended up taking like four or five years of us going through with a bunch of different hosting providers and seeing if we could find the right fit with one of them.

And at one point, ten of our clients sites went down at one time. And with a solutions provider that wasn’t a good fit and we were doing it for all the right reasons, but like the industry wasn’t there yet on a lot of the stuff, especially in customer service and up-time and things like that. So, every one of these things is a little bit of a balancing act of doing what you can do with your resources and trying to spot as many potential red flags as possible. While also staying focused on providing good work and making sure that you’re only as good as your last project in our world. So making sure that your last project was as awesome as it could be is always a challenge.

25:05 (Cory) With all that y’all have been able to accomplished thus far. And now I’m curious where perhaps your focuses personally Mightybytes at 22 year old agency at this point. What are you looking at and interested in approaching yourself here in this next year and beyond?

25:23 (Tim) Yeah, I think we overextended ourselves in the early years of being a B Corp. Like you said, we created Ecograder, a web sustainability tool. We created a B Corp store. All of these things were kind of on our own dime, working towards evolving the company in different directions. And we’ve since kind of whittled that down to two, making sure that we’re providing good service. We still offer posting powered by renewable energy and a number of other things.

For me personally, I think that we’ve successfully navigated, I believe we’ve successfully navigated, this whole idea of profit and purpose and becoming a better company through the ways of the B Impact Assessment. And, it’s inspiring to think about helping other companies do that as well. And so, figuring out what that means to a digital agency is an interesting and large challenge, especially when people come to you saying, I need a website and you’re like, but I want to help you change your business for the better.

Those two things seem kind of at odds. And so we’ve been figuring out ways to kind of identify places within businesses where our digital chops could be fit in. But then, and maybe in the service of like design and I’m, when I say design, I mean more like creative problem solving, not necessarily typography and layout, using design thinking methods, human center designed to help organizations solve problems. There might be a digital product or service at the heart of all of that. But the bigger picture is that we would go in and use these methods to help organizations change the way that they do things and become more efficient to become better at what they do. And as a B Corp imbue B Corp Values and sustainability principles into those processes.

27:03 (Cory) And so I’m curious, so you have the potential clients come to y’all at Mightybytes, and they’re saying one thing or another, they need a website or, or what have you. For folks listening to this, if they can maybe right-size where they may be at, well, what are some kind of common problems or roadblocks or opportunities, clients or potential clients are coming to you with to seek some assistance on?

27:27 (Tim) There’s a lot of, well, the conversation may start with I need a website. Inevitably 90% of the time when you dig deeper into what that really means, it’s usually some sort of organizational transformation that is required. Some sort of digital transformation that’s required. There’s typically a much larger organizational change that needs to happen. And so again, the website might be, or digital product of some sort, might be the kind of core component of what we’re doing. But working through relationships with these clients and helping them identify where the pain points are either for their customers or for them internally. And figuring out ways to change those pain points. So it could be a lot of training, workshopping, a lot of things. We do a lot of collaboration.

I think that’s probably one of the things that makes us different from a lot of agencies is our processes really focused on co-creation and collaboration. And so we’re all up in our clients’ faces all the time. But they appreciate that because that helps us move things forward more quickly, come to consensus more quickly. And so that’s like I said, a little bit of a differentiator for who we are. Does that answer your question?

28:33 (Cory) Yeah, definitely. I guess further along the solutions that you all potentially offer can vary, most certainly from project to project get kind of comes from an initial discussion with that potential client kind of come into your table so to speak.

28:46 (Tim) Yeah, that definitely is the case. Where we want to get it, dig deep into the heart of what their problem is organizationally and then figure out what the best solution is. That best solution would work for that problem. And so there’s a whole bunch of design thinking based methodologies that you can do to, and for every client we go through a discovery process and that’s where we kind of figure out a lot of that stuff. And 90% of the time, as I said earlier, we identify opportunities where this organization can do something a little bit differently and they may need us to jumpstart those efforts, but they don’t need us to kind of handhold them longterm. It’s just a matter of helping them solve a problem and come up with a blueprint for fixing that problem. And then maybe we check in with them on a relatively regular basis to make sure that they’re making progress.

29:35 (Cory) And so maybe for someone in another B Corp business or social business, someone listening in to the podcast right now: If they’re wondering themselves, I’m not sure our online performances is where we would like to be either by findability which is a, a term of I’ve seen you use, with, with SEO or as well, speaking to the UX designer, human centered design, where what would you maybe suggest to them is maybe some initial action steps perhaps to I guess more, holistically evaluate where they’re at and begin to take a few next action steps to getting better performance online.

30:14 (Tim) I’ve come to really appreciate the journey mapping process, which sounds very esoteric and complicated in something only a UX designer could do. And there are many UX designers that do it really well out there. But once you kind of understand the basics, and just in general, the kind of human center design process, it becomes this really great problem solving method for figuring out what your own problems are. So I would say go through a service or product that your organization has and identify pain points, either internally or pain points that your customers have. And there’s a couple of blog posts that we have on our website about the specific process. But the idea being that like when you start to identify weak points in the services or products that you offer, you can also then identify potential solutions for them.

And you can also identify how you can change your internal processes to make those better. How you can create better products in order to make customers happier. How you can create, like I said, internal processes. There’s a whole number of ways that you can identify how to fix things within your organization and make them better and more efficient and keep your customers happier. And ultimately, if you’re doing it right more sustainably as well, because you can start to think about the resources that are being used for those. Ideo has this whole circular design guide that you can help you identify, like, well, once I’ve identified these pain points, what are some things that I can do to make sure that I’m solving them with as few resources as possible or in a way that is regenerative rather than using resources.

31:50 (Cory) It seems like a very rich place to start, without a doubt.

31:54  (Tim) Yeah, for sure. I think that the design methods in general offer this hugely untapped opportunity for moving to a circular economy, for imbuing sustainability principles into a business. I think there’s a huge amount of opportunity there.

32:08  (Cory) Well, excellent. Tim, I really do appreciate your time here on the podcast today. I guess before we wrap up, I’m curious, is there any place in particular that you’d like to plug for folks to keep up with you and what you’re writing on as well as perhaps a check into the good work that y’all are doing at Mightybytes?

32:28 (Tim) Sure. Yeah. I mean, you can always check out our blog Mightybytes.com. We update that pretty regularly. Mainly, we talk a lot about operating as a socially conscious business. We also share digital marketing tips and how to write a great call to action for your website. And we even wrote a recent post about what a Green New Deal might be mean for the Internet. So we kind of cover a lot of these topics on our blog. , I think you can Google Tim Frick and most likely you’ll find there’s a few of us out there, but because I’ve written a number of books, that’s been a great thing for SEO. And so, I’ve got an Amazon author page and if you want to kind of read more about this idea of sustainable business and sustainable design, I’ve got a lot of resources out there available.

33:10 (Cory) Wonderful. And we’ll make sure to link up to everything in the Show Notes. Awesome Tim.

33:14 (Tim) Yeah, thanks so much. We appreciate it.

33:19 (Cory) Hey y’all, that’s a wrap. Really hope you enjoyed this episode of the Grow Ensemble podcast. And as a reminder, if you are a fan of the podcast, please let us know. Hitting subscribe and leaving a review in iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts greatly influences other folks finding our show. As well, don’t forget we have full show notes over at GrowEnsemble.com where I’d also advise you sign up for our newsletter. There, you will be able to keep up with new releases, giveaways that we launch, and any events we host. Thanks again for listening in.