#27 – Building a $100MM Company in 8 Years While Keeping Conservation at Heart

with Peak Design Founder & CEO, Peter Dering

Peak-Design-Peter-Dering

Peter Dering—founder and owner of Peak Design—quit his job in construction in pursuit of professional autonomy and, by scratching his own itch so to speak, he was able to create just that. Peak Design creates cutting edge bag and camera equipment to simplify taking your passion into your adventure. As the creator of some of the highest grossing Kickstarter campaigns ever, Peak Design remains a customer-focused company, with a steadfast mission of sustainability.

Peter and Peak Design are committed to offsetting their environmental impact and pushing for other companies to do the same. Peak Design donates 1% of their revenue to environmental nonprofits and guarantees their products for life—keeping them in the hands of enthusiasts and out of landfills. With the prospect of selling over $100 million in products this year, Peak Design continues to create amazing products for the adventurers among us, all while leaving the world a better, cleaner place than they found it.

In this episode, Peter shares his experience with the immediate boom Peak Design experienced after it’s first Kickstarter launch. He also provides a very tangible roadmap for how companies can take steps to structure their company to make sure they are doing their part in environmental conservation.

Photography of Landscape

A few takeaways from our conversation:

    • Have confidence in your abilities and take chances to create the life you want.
    • Use the modern tools that exist to help young or beginning entrepreneurs.
    • “There are a lot of small players out there who are willing to help companies out with a lot of the tricky aspects of design.”
    • All companies making a profit could be (and should be) giving a reasonable effort to offset their environmental impact.

Show Transcription:

00:01 (Cory) — Hey y’all it’s Cory from Grow Ensemble. On today’s podcast, I’m speaking with Peter Dering from Peak Design. On our episode we chat about the origin story of Peak, which began with a Kickstarter launch back in 2011 and this turned into the second highest grossing Kickstarter project ever and now as we are releasing this episode, Peak is in the midst of what may seem to be again the second highest grossing Kickstarter project ever. And with that we chat about what it’s like now for Peter and Peak with some 40 full time employees, 100 plus products in store, and potentially grossing $100 million in sales in 2019. This led us to talk about what Peter sees as Peaks and other businesses responsibilities in conservation as well as mining their supply chain. So a really excellent episode with plenty of takeaways, very excited for you to tune in.

01:15 (Peter) — My name is Peter Dering. I started a company about nine years ago now called Peak Design and that company was launched with a little mechanism that would allow you to attach an SLR camera to a backpack strap. It was called the capture camera clip and I launched it on Kickstarter in 2011. And that became the second most funded project of all time on that platform and right kind of from the get go, the business was born and it was also successful and profitable kind of from that very first Kickstarter. And essentially the next nine years, or really eight years since that Kickstarter launched, has just been a repetition of that formula. Things have grown over time though. We just last Tuesday, nine days ago, launched our ninth Kickstarter. We’ve done one every single calendar year since Peak Design has been in existence and I’m pretty proud to say that this one is on track to once again take the spot of the second most funded Kickstarter campaign of all time.

02:22 So it’s an interesting little full circle thing. But the long story short is we’ve been building camera gizmos and then bags for photographers and then bags for everybody and now we’re onto a full featured tripod with some really innovative and kind of revolutionary aspects to it. And yeah, it’s a pretty remarkable story that deeply intertwined Kickstarter and crowdfunding with entrepreneurship, innovation, and product design and kind of a different way of doing business.

02:51 (Cory) — And so there’s, I mean there’s quite a bit in there from Kickstarter to, you know, just product launching in general that I’m sure of listeners are interested in. But to kind of backtrack, what was the inspiration for launching that first product? I think I dug up, there was some sort of trip around the world in 2010 that led to the inspiration of the capture product that you ended up putting up on Kickstarter?

03:18 (Peter) — Yeah, that was it, man. I got the wild notion that you could take a leave of absence from work. There’s a little bit bold considering I’d only been there for 19 months. Right. I was in the construction industry before and after I finished my first project, I told my managers I wanted to just take time off and go traveling around the world and they, you know, their first response is, “What? No, that’s ridiculous.” And I said, well then, then I’m going to quit and do it. And they relented. They thought I was a good enough employee where they didn’t want to lose me. So I took my bonus money and just live off it for four months. And when I was on that trip, photography was a huge passion of mine and I kind of fancied myself, a bit of a photojournalist for me. You know, everything was novel.

04:05 Going to Asia for the first time as a 25 year old is a very eye opening experience and you know, it just has the feeling that everything is profound. And somewhere in that kind of profound sensation, I found time to think a lot about what I wanted, what I wanted my life to turn out like. And entrepreneurship is something that I think fairly naturally occurred to me because when you’re out on the road and you’re by yourself, you don’t have bosses telling you to get your ass in the chair at 7:00 AM and you’re your own boss and you can go to bed when you want and you can wake up when you want and you can just choose your own path. So without really even considering the term entrepreneurship, I was sold on the notion of entrepreneurship. I just wanted to work for myself. So I thought of some ideas.

04:56 (Cory) — And I think that’s a particular time in your life, that mid 20s space, mid-late twenties you know, where a lot of people resonate with that particular feeling. A lot of questions of, you know what it is what, like what do I want my life to look like, what it is that I want to do. Connect back to that kind of experience. Was it anything of like an angst and struggle or did it seem kind of to be a smooth transition?

05:18 (Peter) — Oh no, it was really full of angst. In fact, I mean that’s the time period in my life when I first encountered I think true anxiety and that was a result that working in the construction world-I like construction. I find it fascinating, challenging problems to solve. But here you are, you’re just out of college where yeah, you were supposed to get good grades, but principally you were supposed to have fun in college. At least that’s how it seemed at the University of Wisconsin. And life was just pure joy. And when you enter the work world, it’s different, man. You’re on the bottom of the totem pole. You kind of can project forward and see like the people that you’re supposed to aspire to in your life are, you know, 45 and 50 and 55 years old. A lot of them have bad health habits, drinking problems, divorce, you know, it’s like this and you see the trajectory. They just work harder and harder and harder.

06:12 And those are the ones who are supposed to aspire to. Like that’s what climbing the corporate ladder looks like. And so, yeah, I was full of angst frankly. And you know I encountered, that freedom that I had on the road really freed me from that and also gave my life- I was doing something different than what most people did and I think that quest for differentiation in achieving that differentiation also relieved some of that angst. Not that it’s the be all end all. You know, like you do anything long enough and complicated notions of how to create value from your life will creep in. This whole thing about it being a journey and not a destination is just the most ridiculous truism, but there’s no avoiding that.

07:01 (Cory) — And so maybe it’s along those lines a little bit, but perhaps you know someone who was in similar shoes that you wear when you were 25 right now, what might you suggest to them? What maybe kind of piece of advice or guidance do you think you could send their way?

07:18 (Peter) — Well, I think one of the things that allowed me to do what I did was I was, I had confidence in my abilities, but maybe better stated it was confidence that no matter what I was going to be okay. You know, and granted, I’m in a very relatively privileged position to the vast majority of the world. You know, I came from not a wealthy family, but a very middle class working class family, but I had a college degree. That degree was in engineering. I’m a white male, I’m relatively tall. I got a lot of things going for me and I realized that not everybody has those ingrained privileges, but I think that I would challenge you, whoever you are, if you’re a 25 year old to think about the privileges that you do have and just basically remember that no matter what happens, especially when you get out there and you go on a limb and you take a chance, you’re probably not going to end up in the streets. More likely you’re going to learn something valuable from whatever failed experiences you might have that you can carry with you through to your next one.

08:21 I don’t meet people who have regret for taking chances. I don’t see that. So strong encouragement to get out there and take some chances.

08:32 (Cory) — And so I, I think that’s an interesting dynamic. You mentioned the position of relative privilege that being, you know, something that’s allowed you to have the opportunity to take some risks. And I guess I’m curious, you know, because I think in the same context you could say yeah that might make people complacent, you know, like Oh I do have some relative comfort in some ways so people don’t try as hard maybe as they could. So I’m curious for you, what do you feel like has stoked motivation to have you think in the opposite direction of what are the, the greatest things that I can do.

09:10 (Peter) — Yeah, that’s an interesting thing, you know, I think that is just the, either the luck or the curse of the personality that you’re born with in large part, you know? Take, my brother and I: we’re very similar in a lot of ways, but he has no desire to get out there and take these chances. He’s a financial player or, excuse me, a financial planner and he’s just trying to hit the ball down the fairway, you know? And he has no desire to do the types of things that I’ve done and we were raised in very similar circumstances.

09:41 So this kind of yearning to see like what else is out there, what else I can do. It is both a blessing and a curse. You might be able to pull off some pretty cool stuff, but if it leaves you with that constant feeling of being unsatisfied, that’s troubling. And I’m not saying that I’m there, I’m a very satisfied person, especially with my career. I could not be happier. I feel incredibly lucky. But that is not to say that I don’t have to work hard at maintaining happiness and satisfaction across all disciplines in my life. You know, nothing’s perfect.

10:17 (Cory) — That’s certainly true. And so, speaking to a bit of that career success anyway, as to where it started, it’s 2010 you’re traveling around the world and then, Peak Design essentially started in 2011 if I’m correct, with that Kickstarter, what was the sequence of events like? What was the timeline? Were you working on this Kickstarter as you are traveling or was it like, oh I have this idea and now I’m going to settle in, you know, maybe it’s San Francisco where you’re at now, and work on this launch?

10:50 (Peter) — Well man that is quite a sequence of events there. Yeah, there were 15 months that were glazed over. The trip provided this foundation of actually three ideas. One of them was the capture camera clip and then other than one of them was for extraordinarily compact travel tripod, which quite ironically we just launched last week. And the third one was for a regenerative braking mechanism for electrified trains. And that came from the fact that 2008 when I was on my trip, I was pretty intent on my career taking a hard turn towards sustainability. And the thing that really excited me were all these opportunities, both energy savings and also kind of novel ways of generating energy: solar, wind, these types of things.

11:40 And I actually ended up, when I went back to work in 2008 and throughout 2009 I was kind of moonlighting on this idea of regenerative braking mechanisms for electrified trains. I got a provisional patent. I designed a whole system. I did a lot of background research, you know, like this is what I wanted to bring forth to the market, which was an extraordinarily, I think dreaming and naive sort of idea. You know, I never really looked hard at what it takes to bring a product like that to market. I was oblivious to the notion of venture capital and I don’t know, it was a fun project that was fun to dream about. What does have actually worked? You could argue that it could have worked. In fact, they’re another company a couple of years later, ended up putting flywheels in the substations that power these electric trains.

12:35 So, and that was essentially the idea. So it’s cool to see that that thing got out there, but I think it’s vastly different than what I really wanted, which was this autonomy. So the time is the very end of 2009 or they call it the beginning of 2010 I’m on a back country ski trip with my brand new girlfriend. Her name is Ivy and she would become the mother of my daughter before long, actually. But she’s very well aware of the train idea and she actually is an urban planner herself. So she’s interested in the trains but we’re on this back country ski trip. I encounter the problem with not being able to carry my camera and I tell her about this idea of like I just want to have this clip that mounts onto my back pack strap and I could have my camera out.

13:23 And you know, she rather simply pointed out like that seems like a really good idea. That might be easier than the trains. I think you should work on that. That piece of advice. And probably more importantly re-encountering the problem was quite significant in letting me turn towards this other avenue. So my plan to quit my job on, I think it was March 15th, 2010 when the 4th I got my bonus and in my two weeks said thank you very much. I’m going to go try to make it go up and on my own. And then I sat down to design a product, not something that I had ever done before. And you know like the, the next 15 months of bringing that product from. It’s just the notion of it until launching the Kickstarter on May 2nd is a long journey, a long journey that I would actually like to think doesn’t need to be quite so long.

14:19 And I think a lot of the tools to help young entrepreneurs didn’t really exist at that time. And I think that, I think it’s much easier now. Part of those tools are things that Peak Design attempts to put forth.

14:31 (Cory) — And so you talk about the extension of that timeline, you know, in potential resources that are available for entrepreneurs now that weren’t then. I’m curious what you think in your mind may now be able to compress that are perhaps could have compressed that timeline between idea for the product to actually launching on Kickstarter.

14:51 (Peter) — Sure. Accessing very eager supply chains that exist in Greater Asia. That’s, that’s essentially the answer. The notion that there are a lot of small players out there who are willing to help companies out with a lot of the tricky aspects of design.

15:13 I had come from the man from the construction world and so I was very particular about my documentation and like essentially creating blue prints and contracts. And certainly that aided me in my pursuit in some, in some ways, but I think it also hindered because you can get pretty far with a napkin sketch, manufacturer prototyping and then simply iterating on that and saying, no, no, no, not like this, like this. A lot of that though, of course has to do with how complex is the product that you’re putting together in the first place. One of the great strokes of luck of Peak Design is that the capture camera clip was simple enough such then I, without even a mechanical engineering degree, just a civil engineering degree was able to pull it off. And the fact that that product filled a niche which instantly resonated with enough people to get them to cough up, 50 bucks a pop. That was lucky.

16:07 (Cory) — And so what had you think about launching this through Kickstarter? You know, I’m sure there’s a different route this could have gone where maybe, you know, you invested more money upfront potentially to build out the product, you know, maybe get some inventor, but that probably would have changed the trajectory of Peak Design completely. So I’m guess I’m curious where this idea came from and you know, how you started to take initial steps towards it.

16:32 (Peter) — Yeah. It was just one particular week in January of 2011 where I went from having never heard of Kickstarter to having had three separate friends be like, “Dude, you should use Kickstarter. I think it’s perfect for what you’re doing.” And I took one look at it and it was just smack you in the face obvious. Like, oh, this was made for what I’m doing. So my business plan previous to that was, well I didn’t really have one. I was just very, very committed to the idea that this was an important product that people were going to want. And I figured that the sales and marketing aspect of it would work itself out. It did. It happened to be Kickstarter. I didn’t have an alternative plan. I’ve taken it to a variety of camera stores and showed it to him before and you know, and they’re like, yeah, that’s cool. We might sell that. That was the confidence that I went forth with. But I, you know, I don’t really know what I would’ve done if that hadn’t worked. It probably would’ve been a lot harder.

17:35 (Cory) — And so you’re looking to launch the Kickstarter. Is there any additional like launch planning that you’re doing or…?

17:44 (Peter) — Absolutely not. I was like, okay, I have to make a video and I have the right, I have to make words about what this thing is and essentially that’s, that remains true. That’s it. It’s as simple as that. In this day and age, Peak Design gets very, very thorough with first creating. Our first article build would be a hundred samples and we seed media and journalists and influencers. We even strike deals with influencers now whose business it is to get the word out about these things, to give them an early model and, and we want to solicit their very, very real and honest opinion. And if that is good then we say great, tell the world about it. Back in 2011 now, man, I just put it up on Kickstarter and emailed my family and friends and probably posted on Facebook about it.

18:39 (Cory) — It seems like a pretty excellent like product market fit. Like you said, you found a niche that was really wanting for that exact product as solution. So it seems like it came from a lot of scratching an itch to too.

18:54 (Peter) — Yeah, look, yeah, that’s what the impetus of all the products we’ve made, have been about scratching our own itch and we are steadfast in believing that one of the reasons for those successes is that not only is key, you know, Kickstarter is the perfect audience for camera Gizmos, right? This is a group of like early adopters who love techie gadgets and I think it’s a lot of similar type folks. And so not every business, I don’t think will succeed as readily on on Kickstarter. You know, it trends towards the nerdier crowds, right? I mean the video games have done extremely well there.

19:37 The tabletop games Exploding Kittens, you know, there are so many cool success stories within those genres. So camera gadgets fit pretty squarely in that group of like decently nerdy habits or hobbies rather.

19:50 (Cory) — And so with this first Kickstarter, I’m so interested as to the particular moment where you, you started to notice that like, oh shit, this is really taking off like this is really having some success. Do you remember like exactly where you were and maybe what you were doing or is a kind of…

20:07 (Peter) — I think that the fact that within two minutes of launching the Kickstarter page, there was already someone in the United Kingdom who backed it and I was just like whoa, that can’t be right. And then, you know, within five minutes I had five people pledging and like by the end of the hour I was up to 90 and it was just like, this instant waterfall of people coming in to back this thing. How incredible, you know? It just like the power of the Internet hit me so hard on that day and it continues to hit. We just launched this last Kickstarter last week at 7:00 AM in the morning and I can’t remember how quickly it raised $1 million, but I think it was like under an hour.

20:57 I mean, it’s absolutely extraordinary that there are just all these humans all over the world who are willing to back this product. And you know, I think that we’re somewhere approaching 12,000 backers right now. On the one hand that is so many dry pods, but on the other hand, you know, there’s, I forget how many people are participating in the Internet right now, might be 4 billion. And so it just takes the smallest little sliver of people both to reach and then to make that decision purchase to buy, to make something successful. And I think it’s one of the really unique things, or not unique, but it’s an astonishing characteristic of our world. And we are extraordinarily grateful to be participants in it.

21:47 (Cory) — So I’m sure that the Kickstarter launch went for a time, so, you know, sort of metaphorically the next day, you know, after that first launch, what looked different? What were your reactions then?

21:59 (Peter) — I think it was roughly, probably, I remember I took a trip to Washington DC to visit a friend who had moved there. There were like 10 of us going there. And I remember being on the plane in between the time the plane took off and landed. It had like, it had gone up by $7,000 and like it was just so, so exciting. And so that period of absolute elation, which then then also spurs this kind of furious effort to keep up with the comments in the questions and to further prove the viability of the product. Like it really induces a lot of work. And so I was just feverishly working to satisfy this community of backers and I think that they could sense and appreciate those efforts. I was very upfront about that.

22:51 (Cory) — And so now you know, Peak Design has created a hundred plus products in this store, right, but you’ve chosen to only launch one product a year on Kickstarter for the last nine years, is that right?

23:05 (Peter) — Well the vast majority of our products have been launched on Kickstarter. If you take the travel line, for example, last year. That was like 18 different individual skews. Kind of masquerading as like the travel backpack because it’s the principal’s skewed. So we launched almost, it’s almost like we launched categories of products, but you know, apple has their macworld sure Tesla’s got something, you know, we all see you long to get up there on stage and present something. And this is what Peak Design does, the launch products. And I think it’s just a masterful way of going about it that is so rich and community engagement takes advantage of the power of the Internet and allows for real participation in kind of putting the finishing touches on our products.

23:51 (Cory) — And so you know, these now nine line launches over the course of the last eight, nine years for Peak Design. You know, you have a staff of over 30, you know, a full-time employees now what, what’s it like to be sitting in this position and look back a bit.

24:08 (Peter) — Yeah. The funny thing is that like the really cool thing about Peak Design, even though there are 40 employees and sometimes you go over to Asia and you go look around a factory and there are hundreds of people working on Peak Design products and you feel a little pain of, it’s not guilt, it’s responsibility though. It’s like, oh my God, like our actions. You know, the cumulative force of our actions over the years has resulted in all of these people working for Peak Design and it can be overwhelming, but by and large, Peak Design feels the exact same today as it did when it was just me. And then when it was just me and Adam- our first employee and just like us early employees, we’ve added people so slowly that there has never been any kind of like a step function that has adjusted the culture of Peak design, and instead, it’s simply grown in a really, really organic way. And there’s probably no better testament to that than the fact that virtually no one has left the company. And so with the same faces and the same like tribal knowledge that has existed for a long time. It’s allowed for a natural preservation of the culture that it’s been designed.

25:29 (Cory) — And so you mentioned a couple of things there. You know that responsibility in the growing team, just growth of Peak Design in general. How has that come to shape what you feel is y’alls perhaps obligation or as well responsibility as a business in today’s day and age,

25:48 (Peter) — Well for a while that responsibility and that obligation I think is the right way to put it. I think it should be viewed as an obligation if you’re just going through the world today- Obviously I support for-profit industry and the innovation that brings forth and market economies. I’m a very big proponent of all of those things. But if you don’t acknowledge your place in the world and the fact that your effects on the world are currently not sustainable, then I don’t think you deserve a seat at the table. If there is something that you can be doing in order to offset specifically your environmental impact. Because I think your social impact is also really important to think about. But I think that you can quite easily observe that the overall social impact of capitalism in businesses, the result of has been bringing a lot of people out of poverty, longer lives, more happiness.

26:48 Like these are the, these are the overall trends of social good. And I think capitalism is largely responsible for that, but environmentally we just cannot continue to do the same thing that we have always done without there being some pretty gnarly consequences. And so I think it’s incumbent upon every company, especially every profitable company, once you’re making profit, if you’re not out there doing what is reasonable to offset your environmental footprint, then I think that you’re in the moral wrong. And so that’s why we’ve got a pretty aggressive sustainability policy. It’s both aggressive and simple. And I think that that’s what is important for widespread adoption.

27:33 (Cory) — I’m curious, does that specific line, you know, the balance of the case of environmentalism: the balance of doing your part and kind of mining your space as a business while attempting to achieve this growth. You know y’all are a member of the 1% for the Planet Alliance, the Conservation Alliance, and yet, you as well tell some pretty beautiful stories with y’alls Field Notes attached to Peak Design.com. I’m wondering if you could expand a little bit on that balance because I’m sure there’s a lot of other folks listening to this who wonder the same thing. What is the balance of growth and sustainability and my business with mining some sort of social good be it environmentalism or something else.

28:16 Sure. Well here’s kind of our formula. We’ve joined 1% for the Planet. 1% of sales is frankly a totally arbitrary amount of money, right? It doesn’t look at profitability. It doesn’t looking at what type of business you’re in. It’s just this arbitrary line in the sand says 1% of sales. It happens to be for us that there’s a both reasonable and meaningful amount of money to give. So we start there and from within that budget we then employ our- well, okay, let’s we start with that is what our giving budget is going to be and we’re going to figure out how to best effect positive change with that 1% budget. Then you’ve got to look at your supply chain and the most important things that you can do are reduce what you can, right? Like use the least carbon-intensive protocols that you can.

29:06 It starts there, but you’ve got to understand full well that changing the entire worldwide supply chain is not going to happen over night. So while you absolutely should take vigorous efforts to reduce your carbon footprint, be very well aware that you’re going to have a lot left over.

29:23 Secondly is adopt social policies specifically in the factories where you’re doing the majority of your work that allow for happy and healthy and satisfied lives of the people who are doing that very, very hard work. That is another rung, right?

29:39 Thirdly is don’t choose materials and processes that are chemically unsafe, like be as conscientious as you can. We recommend in the textile industry working with Blue Sign for the most advanced in saying basically keep the bad stuff out, like cut it off at the source and then your products are going to be safer.

30:01 And then the last step is offsetting that carbon footprint. And this is a whole other very big conversation, but basically we went through that journey of measuring our entire footprint all the way back to the extraction of raw materials to produce aluminum and refine it. All of that. We found our footprint was 20,000 tons in 2017 we also found that the average cost of a carbon offset at that time is three bucks a ton. So for one fifth of our 1% for the planet budget, we were able to offset the entirety of our carbon footprint. And that is both interesting and really begs the question of-if carbon offsets are that cheap right now, shouldn’t everybody be offsetting their entire carbon footprint as a baseline for responsibility? And what would happen is if everybody did that is you would see a material change in the price of carbon offsets, which is what we want.

31:01 We want the price of carbon offsets to go up because when there’s a higher price on carbon, you can implement more technologies that allow for continued reduction of, of emissions. So this has become one of my, it’s a really cool thing that’s happened because now nine years into making a company that you know might sell $100 million worth of products this year, we actually can have a bigger dent on the environment than if I would’ve had some hokey train startup that was, you know, aimed at conserving a little bit of electricity. And so I’m very fired up on this notion of making carbon offsets be the norm for companies. And that is not to say that carbon offsets are perfect. They are not the be all end all. They are not the silver bullet, but you show me some other action that we can take now that will affect a price on carbon and put energy towards projects that are aimed at reduction. That’s a challenge to you.

32:01 (Cory) — And so now as you’re in the midst of an additional Kickstarter right now. And we’re looking forward some, some clearly ambitious goals. Is there anything else on the table for design looking forward right now at the end of 2019 in the future?

32:16 (Cory) — Well, you better believe it. No, we, we’ve got actually a pretty long product roadmap and we feel really confident that the mix of products that we are going to continue to release are both going to expand our customer base, get into products that are less niche-y than the specific photography market. You know, further dives into travel and making that more joyful and more fun. So I’ll probably avoid talking about specifics, but I’m hopeful for a very, very interesting product launch next January. We shall see. I’m glad I’m not committing to any timelines- that’s actually something about Peak Design. We don’t do budgets and we don’t do schedules. Budgets are a waste of time. You should ever, everyone should be tasked with spending as fiscally conservatively as possible end of story. Schedules? You should be working as hard as you reasonably can towards a common and well understood goal and then we’ll see where it shakes out. It’s just a lot easier to manage that way.

33:14 (Cory) — Right. Without a doubt. And we’ll be looking forward to keeping up with this you, Peter, and Peak Design. Before we close out here, is there anything else that we left out, any other things to take note of or where you’d like to direct those to take a look to get a better understanding of what y’all are up to?

33:30 (Peter) — Sure, sure. Go to PeakDesign.com and you can get a look at everything and I think our sustainability page does a great job of laying out our efforts, like the clear directions we are taking. And theclimateneutral.org is a another great website that we’ll see. I don’t know when this will publish, but it kind of may be ready for its next public viewing soon, so climateneutral.org. That’s a good one.

33:51 (Cory) — Awesome. We’ll have everything up in the show notes. Thanks again for your time, Peter.

33:55 (Peter) — Cool. Thank you. Appreciate it.

33:57 (Cory) — Hey y’all. That’s a wrap. Really hope you enjoyed this episode of the Grow Ensemble podcast and as a reminder, if you are a fan of the podcast, please let us know. Hitting subscribe and leaving a review in iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts, greatly influences other folks finding our show. As well, don’t forget we have full show notes over at growensemble.com where I’d also advise you sign up for our newsletter there. You will be able to keep up with new releases, giveaways that we launch, and any events we host. Thanks again for listening in.